304: Most Mortgage Brokers Are Slowing Down. She's Heading to $70M+. Why?

00:00:06 Ryan Wiley
Welcome to the mortgage game. I truly, truly believe that building a mortgage business, a successful one is like playing a game. There's winners, there's losers. There's certain things you try. Some of us are playing checkers while others are playing chess. I've had the ability to coach and mentor hundreds of mortgage brokers. I myself built a very nice business. So now I want to distill all that information, all the things I've learned from that and bring it directly to you in a simple to understand way. I hope you enjoy.


00:00:35 Jennine Yool
you enjoy.


00:00:38 Ryan Wiley
All right. Welcome to the Mortgage Game podcast. Whiteboard Wiley, as you can see, whiteboard here. This is special. We're not in the truck today. We are coming to you live from the actual YouTube studio, I guess we can call it. And so we have a special guest today, Janine. Hello, Janine.


00:00:54 Jennine Yool
Hey, Ryan.


00:00:55 Ryan Wiley
Good to see you. You're on vacation. Just for a couple of days.


00:00:57 Jennine Yool
for a couple of days.


00:00:58 Ryan Wiley
So what do you want to do? I just wanted to have you on here. We're having more interviews on the podcast, but we're not just interviewing anybody. None of these are scripted. This isn't like, hey, here's the script and then show up prepped. And then this is a real conversation with intriguing people in our industry that I find intriguing, that I know you'll find intriguing. There's hopefully a bunch of takeaways you'll have from this or at least resonate with things or at least feel like, oh, OK, that's cool. I'm not so crazy. Because Janine is feeling the same thing or she said the same thing. And so that's what this is about. So Janine has no idea what we're about to talk about. So I'm just going to get into it and then we'll give some background on who you are and all that fun stuff and why you're here. How long have you been brokering for? That's the first thing. We will share that. How long have you been a mortgage broker for?


00:01:40 Jennine Yool
So it depends whether you're including my time at the banks, but I'm about 15, 16 years as a broker. And then I did start my career at RBC, so I got my feet wet there back. million years ago. And I did some mortgages there. So I kind of include that as a part of my tenure. And then I actually did a year or almost a year back in 2018 at CIBC as a mortgage advisor. So, you know, similar capacity, just working with one lender. But yeah, about 18, 19 -ish years in the industry and 15, 16 -ish is as a broker.


00:02:13 Ryan Wiley
Got it. So that just lets everyone listening know she knows what she's talking about. She's got some things going on. I'll tell you right now, I know. Won't share things, but, you know, Janine's crushing this year. It's 2026. She's doing extremely well, where a lot of mortgage brokers businesses are sort of like teetering this. And I even have the philosophy of this year. It's like, just hold the line. You can hold the line at whatever your volumes are, like increasing your volume in this marketplace right now. It's a lot harder than you think. And so Janine's actually increasing her volume this year, which is crazy. And so where do you think you're dropping the ball? I'm not even going to give you like, what are you doing? What's working? I know you're crushing mortgages. I know what you're doing behind the scenes. Where do you think you're actually dropping the ball, though, right now?


00:02:55 Jennine Yool
Speed. I try. I ascribe to, you know, 24 hours for pre -approval, pre -qualification for my clients. I ascribe to speed. I think that's somewhere that's always been a little bit of my sweet spot. Like it or not, I'm fully immersed in this business. And so I do my best to get back to clients very, very quickly. And 90 % of the time I can. But this year has been hard. It's been very hard to just keep my head above water. My turnaround times aren't. terrible, I would say, but they're not where I would like them to be. They're definitely not where they were a year and a half ago when things were a little bit slower.


00:03:27 Ryan Wiley
things were a little bit slower. What do you mean? When you say speed, do you mean getting back on general emails? Do you mean getting back to leads? Do you mean getting approvals? Do you mean getting pre -approvals back?


00:03:37 Jennine Yool
Leads, I'm very quick because it's really simple, right? two minutes to respond to an email, send them a calendar like that's easy. That's not an issue. I'm very fast on that. It's more of the higher level. So right now at this particular moment, I owe two different clients kind of proposals. They're more like strategy breakdowns. They're somewhere between a pre -approval and a strategy email because they're not straightforward. These are not first time home buyers. There's a sale that's going to have to happen. One of them is going to require renting out their existing property. These are. higher level type structuring required. And I had planned and hoped to have those back to both clients yesterday. And it's, you know. Friday morning, 11 o 'clock -ish, and I do not have them out yet. So that's going to be something that's going to be on the horizon on the afternoon. But there's just not enough hours in the day. I'm doing everything I possibly can to stay on top of, you know, the most pressing things. And my clients, I will always do everything possible to make sure that they are not aware. But I'm also way harder on myself. And I know that in other seasons, it's easier to stay on top of things. And this is just not that season.


00:04:42 Ryan Wiley
What sort of support do you have on your team? And I'm going to throw something in here. I didn't even ask you to share this, but I'm pretty sure you'd be okay because I think it's quite impressive. But in the first four months, January, February, March, April, first four months, you funded 53 deals. That was correct, right? 53 files. And you're in the GTA, big mortgage sizes because this is how our industry talks. You're probably going to be, I'm guessing, in the $70 million to $80 million range this year. I want to know what type of support you have behind the scenes.


00:05:09 Jennine Yool
Absolutely. So I have one assistant. She is... just mine she works exclusively for me she works full -time but she's really my only source of mortgage support i do have some assistance with marketing i've subcontracted out a company who does help with my social media they do my posting we do content days and prep for those which has become a part of my business and i think that's actually a little bit of what has helped support my volumes this year that I took on in November of last year. And I think I'm seeing it helping to move the needle in terms of just brand awareness and bringing more attention to, you know, what it is that I do for a living. But no, I really only have one full -time support.


00:05:51 Ryan Wiley
She's full -time. And so does she run your full fulfillment? Like, where does she pop in and out of your business? I do all client communication, but she does help with doc collection.


00:05:56 Jennine Yool
do all client communication, but she does help with doc collection. Everything comes in. She's organizing it, getting it. you know done secure folders and then she's working to put the framework of the application on the system if it's a new client or copying and updating an old application if that's the situation for that particular client if there's docs missing she's letting me know sometimes on occasion I'll have her reach out just by email to ask for that but by and large I'm still you know I try to keep forward facing with all client experience as much as possible. And then once the file is complete, she's CC'd on all communications so that, you know, if clients have anything specific, they've got another point of contact, but she also can then kind of monitor things behind the scenes. I guess she'll do things like order appraisals for me. She'll do up all my docs and compliance packages. She does that up. And then I would be, again, the one sending everything. She does my summary email that goes out with every single client file. So she's doing that up based on a template. And then I'm just. making sure everything's correct. And, you know, it's coming from my name, but ultimately she's on that communication as well. Just to be a second set of eyes, keep me sharp, make sure that I'm not missing anything.


00:07:01 Ryan Wiley
He's not connecting directly with your clients.


00:07:03 Jennine Yool
Almost never.


00:07:04 Ryan Wiley
Okay. Cause I know that's a thing. Some people are like, I need it to come from me. I just want that way. Other people are like, nope, you can handle it. You can, and obviously working for you. Like you've gotten to this point where that setup's working. Okay. You mentioned social media. I'm going to do a little curveball before we do it. This podcast brought to you by Americano with, you know, you know, let's talk about social. Cause you said that that's definitely helped with where you're getting some files from as well as a couple other things. I want to focus on where the deals are coming from this year. And so let's talk social media first. Social media. What were you doing? A year ago, were you sending out the static cards? Were you making videos? Was it like one -offs here? Did you have a schedule? Did you lean into scripting? Like what did it look like before and why the focus now and how did you get it off your plate? So a year ago,


00:07:53 Jennine Yool
a year ago, it was... Pardon my language, it was a shit show. I had absolutely no framework. I had no organization. I was not doing anything that was really mortgage related. I think if you popped onto my page, unless you read the bio, you probably wouldn't even know what I did for a living. You certainly wouldn't be reaching out to me to assist with a mortgage, that's for sure. I think I had known for a long time that I needed to level up my social. I just... didn't want to. And that sounds terrible, but it was true. I don't love being in front of the camera, despite the fact I'm learning to. And that's been something that's been a point of growth, I would like to think. It's not somewhere I find I gravitate toward, but I realized that there was a hole in my business and it was. Definitely a detriment. People would ask for a business card and who gives out business cards anymore? No one does. We all are directing people back to our social, but I didn't have any sort of presence on there. And I realized that there was a gap there. And so it took me a long time. The social media, the company that I'm working with, they're not exactly inexpensive, I would say, but I think they provide immense value and they're keeping me. on track if i didn't have that i don't think i would do social you mean batch recording right yep the batch recording but they also they do post you know all my stories are me but they have a framework and they are keeping me organized if i had to take that on myself i would probably have to hire another fulfillment person


00:09:05 Ryan Wiley
mean batch recording right yep


00:09:06 Jennine Yool
the batch recording but they also they do post you know all my stories are me but they have a framework and they are keeping me organized if i had to take that on myself i would probably have to hire another fulfillment person which just didn't make any sense to me. I'm very much a believer in doing what you are an expert at. I know to stay in my lane. That is not an area where I have great expertise. Some people, some brokers, there's some amazing people on our team who do such a spectacular job on their social media and are killing mortgages, kicking butt at the same time. I know for me that if I was... taking time away and spending and voting that specifically on doing the social myself, my business would end up suffering. So it was like, okay. I need to then hire the company that is going to help me be consistent and, you know, get my messages and communicate what I want to out on social so that when clients are either looking for me, maybe they've been given my coordinates by their realtor or they found me through a mom's group. They know that they can check on my social and get a little bit of a snapshot and an idea of who I am and what I do.


00:10:16 Ryan Wiley
And so. You were originally, you tried, I think, to just go like the daily stuff where you get on and you talk about something in the moment. And then you realized you got busy, that fell off like most people. And so naturally you went to the next one, which is batch recording. So you batch script one day, then you batch record. So I'm assuming it's a scripting day once a month, a recording day once a month. You hired a company who comes in with a fancy camera. You either go to them or they come to you. You then walk through in a couple hours, all of your videos, maybe you get out 20. in that time 15 to 20 something and you're done for the month they come back fully edited these 30 to 60 second short form videos and then they post them for you on your is that the gig 100 yep everything is me yeah yeah it's all my scripts it's my voice everything but


00:10:58 Jennine Yool
yep everything is me yeah yeah it's all my scripts it's my voice everything but I am being held accountable because they're kind of doing a lot of the day -to -day legwork that I just know if I was left to do it myself would probably end up falling off. And it certainly wouldn't have the level of consistency that I know is necessary to be successful on social for the purpose of what I've tried to do.


00:11:22 Ryan Wiley
Yeah. And I see a lot of brokers, they're struggling and a lot of them are, I think, quite frankly, just trying to be cheap. and so they're trying to jam themselves into this spot where they commit to doing it every day and within a week it falls off because they don't get the results they want because they're just their expectations are unreal they're making content to get files when in all reality it should just be getting more exposure and opening up conversations and then you said i'm not going to do that i already know i'm not going to do it so let's just call what it is now what do i do so you went and hired someone you set that up


00:11:34 Jennine Yool
they don't get


00:11:52 Ryan Wiley
Love, love, love it. There's a lot of brokers I know doing that and they wouldn't be doing social like you said if they didn't do that. Okay. Can you put your finger on other areas where you're getting files in now? Can you specifically point to things or is it kind of just, I don't know, people are kind of reaching out?


00:12:10 Jennine Yool
No, I know exactly where all my deals are coming from because I ask. Perfect. Every single client, if I don't know where they've come from, I'm asking. That's one of the first, if not the first question that I'm asking. Mostly because I want to make sure if someone's referred me, I want to be able to thank the referral source. And you cannot discount that in this business. I'm going back and thanking every referral source, just, you know, acknowledging it. So important. We don't do enough thinking in this business. Well, in this day and age, in my opinion. So I really try to make a conscious effort to do that. My business is coming from a number of places. Obviously, existing clients. 2021 was a really busy. year just with where interest rates were, what everything looked like, the market looked like. So a lot of those clients are coming up for renewal. So I've got a fair chunk of business coming from that. I also have a number, you know, a good percentage of clients are coming from renewals that I did in 2023 when rates were a lot higher. Everybody did three years. So I've got those. leads are coming in. Those are all my existing client base. A good bit of my business comes from my realtor partners, which is amazing. And I'm incredibly grateful to the realtors who continue to provide my name. I do get some from a combination of social and just being referred on things like mom groups on Facebook and things like that. I do got probably 10 to 15 % of my business comes from that these days. And I have a... somewhat regular appearance, not on any sort of level of consistency, but I'm on CP20 for breakfast. They have me on a few times a year. So I have been getting a few leads every, you know,


00:13:39 Ryan Wiley
know,


00:13:39 Jennine Yool
every year I'm getting probably a handful or more. Maybe a dozen leads sometimes from that, which is fantastic. Oh, and then just referrals from existing clients and, you know. Friends, family, you know, the network gets wild over time, how it grows and builds. And so a lot of my business comes from referrals from, you know, existing clients or people that I just know are in my circle.


00:14:01 Ryan Wiley
So those are all the standard answers. But that's the thing. Like people who are running businesses and closing files, their answers usually overlap a lot like that. There's not like a secret thing out there, a secret course. the script you use, running ads. It's basically all those boring things you've spent years building up in relationships and then just keep nurturing. I know everyone listening to this, it's the same thing over and over we keep talking about. It's just a lot of you, your runway, you're just judging yourself like too short. You're like one year in, two year in, four years in, and you're like, just give it some time. Like it's a 10 year play. And so you said there's a lot of renewal stuff because it's a perfect storm with the 2021 and the 2023 stuff coming together. Are you losing more deals this year than you've ever lost before?


00:14:47 Jennine Yool
From a pure numbers standpoint, yes. Yeah. But I actually think. My renewal business, I think in the last few months, I've actually increased the number of deals that I've done on a percent. So borrowers who are coming up for renewal that I've actually retained their business. That number has climbed in the last few months. It's still not where I would love it to be, but I would say my ability to retain that business is higher than it was in years gone by. Previously, I had a very low retention rate unless the client needed to refinance, for example. I was... probably losing four out of five deals. I don't think I'm losing that many. That's industry average.


00:15:26 Ryan Wiley
industry average. Industry average is 0 % right now. Yeah,


00:15:30 Jennine Yool
and that's not at all surprising, you know, especially if you're with one of the major banks, client's existing mortgage. I'm seeing some really, really competitive renewal offers with some institutions in some cases, but I will say it is not across the board and I'm seeing various lenders, you know. They're not always pricing every client ultra competitive. I'm seeing a real mixed bag. And so when there is an opportunity, I think the big thing is just getting in front of all of those clients, making sure you're having that conversation as well in advance as possible. And I think there's going to be further opportunity because if bond yields continue to climb, if we continue to see inflation rise in the next number of months, you know, if you're getting in sooner than later, by the time the bank catches up and provides a rate, we might be able to lock something in sooner and better than they're even able to, which. That's not certainly the only reason they should be working with you. Or I hope my clients aren't only working with me on rate. But is that a consideration? Absolutely. But it certainly helps if you've gotten ahead. You're showing that immense value because you've gone ahead and taken care of the client before they even knew that they needed taking care of.


00:16:32 Ryan Wiley
So we just came out of that with the rate hold with where interest rates pushed up. We as an industry knew it was coming. Did you get a ton of rate holds in? I did.


00:16:38 Jennine Yool
did. I wouldn't call them rate holds specifically because I underwrote them like completely. I have. Quite a considerable number of deals that are fully underwritten ready. Like they're approved. They are sitting approved. But you secured a rate hold,


00:16:51 Ryan Wiley
you secured a rate hold, just a fully underwritten rate hold. Correct. You secured. So then when rates pushed up, now there's less competition because now it's pretty much you're usually up against like RBC, maybe CIBC once in a while. But you have a fighting chance now versus if someone was coming to you today. and you had a 454 for reference, and RBC had a 404, that's a bigger hill to climb with a 50 basis point difference versus if you hadn't walked in a 414 versus a 404, you can talk your way around that.


00:17:24 Jennine Yool
You got it. It's pipeline preservation, right? I went ahead and I looked at my book of business and I was reaching out when I saw rates were climbing, I was reaching out to my client's head renewals in July, August, September, October, even a little bit further out because... Again, with National Bank, we can go as much as 180 days I can hold a rate for. So I was looking, you know, anyone who I had had contact with that I knew was up for renewal, I was doing my best to try and get ahead of that and get in front of it. And, you know, if rates continue to trend upwards, some of these rates are probably going to look really, really good by the time these clients come up for renewal. And they're certainly, they're not going to walk out the door because they're just going to be better and are better than what's available right now in the market otherwise.


00:18:04 Ryan Wiley
Yep. You played the hand you were dealt at the time, right? That's what you did. And it shocks me like National Bank. So for those watching, you get this standard 128 rate hold. National Bank has great rates. And then if you want to go to 150, 150 days, you had to add five basis points on. If you want to go 180, you have to add 10 basis points on. But it shocks me. I'm baffled at how many mortgage brokers don't have a plan for when rates are trending up. And when rates are trending down, that should like ignite a game plan. There should be a game plan. Maybe you don't have it mapped out. Maybe it's all up here. You just know what to do. But those are massive opportunities for rate arbitrage on the way down and rate holds on the way up. It's shockingly, but you just, you took advantage of that. You knew rates were pushing up. You said, I'm going to go into my book. Nothing fancy here. I'm just being extremely proactive. And that's been what's fed your first quarter. of 2026 has been that strategy as well as other things. But that was a good piece of the pie.


00:19:01 Jennine Yool
It certainly helped. Absolutely. It was what started my year strong and it's hopefully going to allow for, you know, a relatively stable year. You're going to have a great year.


00:19:10 Ryan Wiley
going to have a great year. You're going to have a great year.


00:19:13 Jennine Yool
So to give people some more context here,


00:19:15 Ryan Wiley
here, where are you located?


00:19:17 Jennine Yool
Burlington, Ontario. So southwestern Ontario.


00:19:20 Ryan Wiley
And how many kids? Four. What's the ages?


00:19:24 Jennine Yool
So our son will be 17 next month, our oldest. And then I have daughters 15, 13, and 12 later on this year.


00:19:32 Ryan Wiley
Okay. 12 to 16, 12 to 17 coming up. So four kids. You've got a lot on your plate, we could say. Understatement.


00:19:39 Jennine Yool
You know what? We all do. I know. Pick your poison.


00:19:42 Ryan Wiley
We do. You have healthy kids. So that's a good thing.


00:19:44 Jennine Yool
I'm very grateful.


00:19:45 Ryan Wiley
Yeah. Let's get into a little bit of personal stuff because I think this stuff, no one talks about the LLC volumes and we're doing this and we all start talking with the same shit and it starts getting regurgitated and it's all the same, just packaged up a little differently. I want to talk about some of the challenges you're having and I want to talk about mindset challenges. And so I'm going to ask you to be a little vulnerable. Where does your head go? Like, are you in a spa right now where you're like, I don't know, like, am I going to have a business a year from now? Am I going to have a business six months from now? why am I even doing this? Like, I want you to just kind of talk about the ups and downs of your mindset because everybody has it. I don't care how good of a person or successful you are. We all have mindset challenges that we overcome. What are some of yours that jump off the page? I think I try to find line.


00:20:29 Jennine Yool
I try to find line. So some days I wake up and I'm like, Yeah, that was the last mortgage I've ever done. Like, this is the last one. Like, no one will ever refer to me again. Like, if I had a really rough week, really rough day, and everything seems to be going wrong, and I'm just honestly convinced that, like, no one is ever going to work with me again. And, like, it's just, it's all fallen off. Like, there are days where that is extremely real. And then the phone just keeps ringing. don't always know why or where. And then you go on to have a really great week and it's like, oh, I can do this. I can keep doing this for another two years, five years, who knows, however long, you know, this industry allows for it. So, yeah, I think it depends on the day you get me. I wish I could say that I had some magic formula to, you know, fix my mindset. I think the big thing I've just learned. So this was my mantra for 2026. And it's what I'm trying to live and ascribe to. Choose your heart. Nothing in this light that is of great meaningful value is easy or at least that's certainly been my experience so I just keep pushing through on days when it feels impossibly hard and nothing feels like it's going right I just keep doing the things that I know that have worked in the past and it doesn't mean I've got it all figured out I definitely definitely don't but somehow here I am you know 18 -ish years later and Somehow people keep calling and my phone and email just keeps filling. A testament to you.


00:22:00 Ryan Wiley
testament to you. You know,


00:22:00 Jennine Yool
You know, you just got to keep showing up. You just got to keep showing up. So for those listening or watching,


00:22:04 Ryan Wiley
So for those listening or watching, it's like she's been in the game a while and she still feels like that. Like it's like it's OK. It's kind of like hopefully that gives you permission to feel like you're normal. If you're feeling that at home, I know I feel that all the time. You're like, when's this ride going to end? This is hard. And every day you wake up, you're drinking from a fire hose all day and there's just going to be shit. on top of shit that's going to be happening every day. And some days the stuff that happens is this big. And other days it's just like, and you're like, why am I doing this? What's going on? Is this normal? Should I even be doing this? And you start comparing yourselves with other people. And like, they look like they have a well -oiled machine. Like they look like they got all their stuff together and they look like, and I know that's what people think about you as well. And this was me just kind of peeling that back a bit and going, oh no, Janine's like, she's a regular person. She has the same fears. insecurities, all the same stuff we're all carrying around. Absolutely. While being a mom and a wife and all that stuff, just a real person. So the imposter syndrome that people describe is so real.


00:23:01 Jennine Yool
imposter syndrome that people describe is so real. Like I, I've said this before and I think maybe in our team meetings and things like I still see myself largely through the lens of. the mom that i was standing at my kitchen island i can vividly remember i had a baby in my carrying pack and i was bouncing and trying to respond to emails and another one was eating in their high chair and throwing food and one of my my older ones who was still a toddler at this point was screaming in the background and throwing toys like i Don't feel far away from that. Not at all. So, you know, when people talk about this business that I feel very, very grateful to be where I am. But I still think of myself in a lot of respects as there. It doesn't feel real still some days to be.


00:23:53 Ryan Wiley
You don't feel like you're doing anything special. I know that. Like we talk anytime. You feel like you're not and you're just like, you want me to come on the podcast? Sure. Why? And I'm like, because from the outside, for the average broker. Looking out there, you're doing spectacular things. You don't feel it. You don't think it. But that's usually the case with successful people. They don't know any different. They're just like, I'm just showing up. Are other people not showing up? Are other people not doing that? Right. And you said earlier, I loved your mantra for 2026 was you pick your heart.


00:23:55 Jennine Yool
I know


00:24:22 Ryan Wiley
Same thing. Like being broke is hard. Like not having money to pay the bills is hard. Not being able to do family. That's hard. I'd rather do the hard here where there's at least a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and the people I'm surrounded by can all benefit. I'd rather do that hard than the other hard where they're all suffering. I have a lot more control over this hard. I want the control. Exactly. And so we're going to do a hard left here. We were talking about niching out and whatnot, because I think you're starting to realize that is something. You need to at least start thinking about and learning, like, what's the next three, five, seven years of your career going to look like? One of the things we did talk about, and I want to just run through this and hopefully give some people some takeaways, is you're still finalizing what that's going to be, what you're actually going to niche out on. But you love stated income deals. Maybe you don't love them, but you're really, really, really good at them. Is that safe to say? I've done a lot.


00:25:11 Jennine Yool
done a lot. Yeah, in my career, it's certainly been a considerable portion of my business. I would say in any given year it varies, but probably 10 to 15 percent of my business is stated income right now. Maybe in certain years, even a little higher. I kind of love it. As geeky as that sounds, I kind of love it because you can make a huge difference in people's lives and you so frequently and so often end up finding that the people that you're making a difference in their lives is because they've already heard no. They've probably in some cases heard no a number of times before I've actually spoken to them and been able to give them the yes that made their life different and better and got them into a home.


00:25:54 Ryan Wiley
It fills your cup doing that. But now when we're talking about niching out, the obvious stuff comes to play. It's like, okay, well, the rate conversation goes away because people just need access to capital and they need a yes. They want to feel like someone's advocating and in their corner and they want a problem solver. And so if you are going to go build a niche and it is going to be around stated income, if I'm sitting here and I've maybe done one, two, three stated income files, can you give me some like. Just things that I should know. Give me some like very specific things I can sink my teeth into. Very technical things that I should know when I'm looking to either identify a stated income deal or I'm piecing a stated income deal together. I'm putting you on the spot. Just give me like. two, three moves there that someone could have if they were thinking about doing that.


00:26:37 Jennine Yool
Yeah, really high level. If you have a sole proprietor who is looking for stated income or you know, or likely is going to be a good stated income deal, you're going to go ahead. You're going to look at their T1 generals. You're going to look at their gross business earnings. You're going to look at their net business earnings. Everybody else is going to look at their net earnings and you're going to be able to take a two -year average gross step by 15%. That's all well and good. But in a lot of cases, I started my career as a broker, sole proprietor. What that gross number looked like versus that net number, you're not getting a true picture, you know, with that net number. If you can look at that client's income, look at the gross and the net from the most recent year, okay, so for right now, if we're looking at 2025, hopefully, just where we are in the calendar year, you would probably be able to state just straight, very simply, sort of a number between their gross and net. And certain individuals, you can actually go a little bit higher or a little bit closer to the gross. And this is where understanding what that client does and what that industry looks like. Because if you have someone who has very low expenses. So a broker like ourselves, we know that our income is, you know, a lot closer to our gross than our net because we don't have a ton of expenses in this business. What am I paying for? I've got my assistant, got some marketing, not a ton of ton of high overhead expenses. So I can probably state something that is closer to a borrower's gross income if they are in an industry that has lower expenses associated with it. OK, they're so easy with sole proprietors when we're talking about, you know, our BFS and corporate. incorporated individuals, this is where you're pulling out the financials. You're taking a look at actually what their true things like NIAT, their net income after tax, but then also recognizing that sometimes that NIAT just doesn't get us far enough. You work with someone like Scotia. Yes, they have a fantastic BFS program, their extended BFS program that does allow for a portion of NIAT to be used, but you're not getting credit for all of it. Whereas when you're actually looking and doing a stated income deal for someone who's in that as an incorporated individual. we can often use a much higher percentage of that NIAD or I can make a case for using that. And especially for using some of the lenders that really specialize in stated income, which is so critical. You cannot just go to anyone with this deal. First of all, they have to be able to do stated income. A lot of lenders don't. A lot of our major bank partners don't have it as an option. But the lenders that do, for example, Strive, First National, in my experience, Strive gets a good and very considerable portion of my stated income deals because they are so... good at it. If someone is trying to niche and try and get into that space or wants to do more business in that space, the BDMs there I have found are spectacular and really great partners. And it's largely how many, many, many moons ago when Street Capital was in our space, I had learned how to do stated income from an underwriter at Street Capital. And she taught me and spent some time with me. It was on one of our work trips, actually. She helped download a fair bit of information. And here I am, you know. over 10 years later. And it's become a notable part of my business just because it was something I was able to really kind of get my head around. And so few brokers actually specialize in it that if you can do it and do it well, you're not losing that deal, like almost ever.


00:29:52 Ryan Wiley
Yeah, the stated income world, the next problem or next challenge ends up being, hey, I want to do stated income because I think it's a niche that's not going away. Stated income is not going away anytime soon. It's shooting fish in a barrel. It's just you have to find the fish. And so then you reverse engineer and you just go, where are these people hanging out? Then you have to build a marketing plan around that. And then you build your social media around that and you figure out which referral partners have access to these types of clients. And so you build a marketing plan around getting in front of them. And so, but you could build a whole business, which you are quasi contemplating shifting gears there or either shifting gears to another niche and maybe still also focusing on stated income. That becomes the next challenge. Anyone can pick a niche, but it's like, cool, how do you get people to know what you do? So then that becomes a marketing play.


00:30:37 Jennine Yool
For sure.


00:30:38 Ryan Wiley
Okay, so another question for you. If you could go back 10 years ago, you know, what would you tell that person about specifically mortgages, this industry, maybe a little bit about you in the business? I want to keep it business related, not personal, but what would you tell yourself? Just keep going.


00:30:50 Jennine Yool
keep going. Just keep going. I did, but it was hard. There was times where it was really, really difficult. Oh my gosh. Like every day during certain seasons. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I had four very real motivators to not. And I have three daughters. I didn't want them to see their mom quit. I didn't want them to think that that was okay. Our kids will see. Absolutely everything. I know you said not to get terribly personalist to our business, but it's what motivated me to keep going in a lot of seasons where I just felt like throwing in the towel was the only option. I also I think I got to a point, too, where I realized I was kind of a one trick pony. Once you've been doing something a really long time, doing anything else just felt. crazy and foreign. And I was like, OK, well, then I guess I have to figure it out. Like I just have to kind of write. This is all I've done for my entire career, basically, since I was, you know, a real adult. This is all I've done. So I've got to just kind of figure it out. So, you know, for brokers who are in that season where it just feels insurmountable and how am I going to keep going? Sometimes it's about figuring out what is your ultimate motivator. Not everyone's going to have the same motivation, but if you know what that motivator is, this business is incredible. The sky's the limit. I have no glass ceiling I have to push through. I create my success. No one else is responsible for it but me. So, you know, if I'm not showing up, it's going to be apparent. And if I am, it translates. If you can look at it through that lens,


00:32:30 Ryan Wiley
you can look at it through that lens, it's pretty powerful because it's unlimited. You have unlimited happiness, unlimited families you can help, unlimited money you can make, unlimited experiences you can give people, unlimited life. It's truly unlimited. What was something that you wish you would have done better? Was there a mistake you made? I'm talking the fundamentals of your business. There's so many things. If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have done differently.


00:32:51 Jennine Yool
so many things. If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have done differently. I've talked about this in our team calls and things like that. The single thing that if I could go back and start from day one is better data. It's something I'm much more intentional about now. But oh, man, I could have helped so many more families, done so many more deals if I had just had really good data from day one. And it doesn't have to be complicated. You know, if you have a fantastic CRM and it's working for. you and you love it amazing you know run with that mine is a spreadsheet it's 2026 it is google docs i upgraded from excel but it is a spreadsheet that i run off of and it works it does what it needs to but if i could have gone back and started that spreadsheet on day one then oh man like it just would have been think about that now like we're in an age right now where you can sort through data pretty quick with ai


00:33:38 Ryan Wiley
about that now like we're in an age right now where you can sort through data pretty quick with ai But you need data. And so those who have the cleanest data moving forward, I firmly believe are going to win. Or it's going to be way easier to make the revenue you want if you have clean data, because now you have ways to sort through the data, ways to analyze the data. Whereas before it was all manual. You had to go through and go, well, Bob has this and Sally has that. Okay. And you're doing math. Now there's like. there's calculators on top of calculators to go figure that out for you. And just like that, but without the data, you got nothing. So you're like, after every file, one of the points in which a lot of people don't do is other property zone. You're taking in the application, you get the other property zone. They all have mortgages usually. Yeah. Get the information, put it on the spreadsheet. Absolutely. Other property zone. Those are opportunities for you. Even if you don't do the mortgage. Right. On the principal and they go away, you have other three, four mortgages you get to track now and reach out.


00:34:40 Ryan Wiley
So I'm with you. Data. That's a good one. We're going to clear this up. But before we go, I just want to ask you this. Is there something that you are excited about in your business, in the industry? I want to leave on a high note. I want to leave with not like, hey, where's the industry going and what's going? I want it to be like, what are you genuinely excited about in your business or the industry right now?


00:35:01 Jennine Yool
I mean, it's always a little bit of been there, but I get to help people. Like it's really.


00:35:07 Ryan Wiley
So cliche. I know it is,


00:35:09 Jennine Yool
know it is, but it's still true. It's so true, though. And it sounds cheesy, but it is. What we do is boring. I've said this so many times. It is so boring. It is not sexy. It is not. But I have this really... It's incredible. You can make a difference in someone's life. Not everyone has that opportunity. That will always be my default. That is always where I go to when things get really hard that I can. do things that I can make a difference in people's life. I think it's easy to forget that in the noise of our industry. Yeah, there's a lot of negativity. It can be really difficult to get things done when, you know, you're calling, you're following up, you're doing all the right things and still it's not coming together. And not because the deal wasn't good, not because you didn't underrate it correctly, not because you've done anything wrong, just because people aren't doing their job. And unfortunately, there is a lot of that in this world right now. But you know what? At the end of the day, I have a lot of control as well. So I'm excited for the fact that I now know how to handle a lot of these situations and things that used to stress me out, used to keep me up at night. I just kind of squatter off a duck's back. Not that I don't take it incredibly seriously. I absolutely do. It's probably the reason I don't stress about it the same way I used to. Because rather than stressing about it, I take action. I've learned to take action. I've learned what I need to do. And there's very, very few situations where I really don't know how to deal with that situation. And that just comes through doing the reps, getting the experience, you know, seeking out other brokers who know what they're doing. When you're in a situation where you don't know how to handle it. So, yeah, it's exciting that I'm in a season that I feel like if I don't know the answer, I know where to get the answer. I know how to handle the situation when it's complicated and complex. It's a good place to be. It's a nice feeling to have. And again, it goes back to being able to help someone at the end of the day. If you really are able to look and see that there's a client on the end of that transaction. They're excited. They've bought a house. They've such a girl.


00:37:13 Ryan Wiley
a girl. Like guys would be like, you know, I get to help people and make money and help everyone. And you're like, I like helping people. But it's true. It is.


00:37:25 Jennine Yool
And it was honest. Yeah, it's my true. I know.


00:37:28 Ryan Wiley
know. If we ask five girls and five guys, you'll get a lot more like that's just the way it is. My takeaway from what you just said was. shit's going to happen. People aren't going to do their jobs, but what I've learned how to control better is how I react to that, how I let that affect my day, how I let that come in. And I've just realized as long as I play my part, I can't control these other things. So why am I stressing about it? I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Exactly. It's kind of like you talk to your kids about playing sports. Just play your role. Your role is this. Don't worry about them. You can't control them. Same thing. I can't control the appraiser. I can't control the solicitor. I can't control the client. I can't control the lender. I can't control the underwriter, the BDM, the fulfillment. Like, ah, that's heavy when you put it on your shoulders. I control. I can control whether I've stressed out that client or whether I've taken control of the situation.


00:38:15 Jennine Yool
can control whether I've stressed out that client or whether I've taken control of the situation. I can control the level of communication I have with that client to make sure that they've been taken care of and things will come together. I have control over certain things. And those are the things that ultimately the client is looking to make sure is taken care of. They want to know that they're in good hands and that things are going to happen, that the way that you've told them, they want to hear that and they want to have that comfort from you. If you've provided that, that's 90 percent of the stress.


00:38:46 Ryan Wiley
Peace of mind is priceless. I sure it is.


00:38:47 Jennine Yool
sure it is.


00:38:48 Ryan Wiley
Our job is to manage expectations. And I was talking to a broker the other day and. unfortunately she was she was in the middle of it but the problem was she was sharing everything she was telling all the steps all the behind stuff and she was sharing with the client thinking she was doing them like a good thing but she was stressing the fuck out of those people and the referral and everyone stressed out when in all reality if you would have just kept it all internal knowing you had it and then you go and tell the people i got you it's not gonna fall apart i've never had this happen before sleep like and you just take it on yourself It was actually working against sharing too much. Absolutely. And that give out the peace of mind to the people because the end result is going to be the same regardless. how much you share with that person. If the deal was falling apart, it was always going to fall apart. If the deal was going to go together, it was always going to. So why get everyone all riled up and everyone messaging? Because then doubt creeps in with the client and they start talking to the peanut gallery and then they run into a person who's like, oh, my guy will get you that in 24 hours and blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden you start losing files because you shared too much information thinking you were doing them a solid.


00:39:54 Jennine Yool
Absolutely. And logistically too. Sometimes you get a situation where there's too many cooks in the kitchen, you share too much information, and all of a sudden they're trying to fix things that there wasn't necessarily a problem there to begin with. And so, you know, I would rather share when there is developments and I... Try and, as much as possible, shield the client from the stress that I'm, you know, dealing with behind the scenes. That's what we're paid the big bucks to do. It's a superpower.


00:40:19 Ryan Wiley
a superpower.


00:40:20 Jennine Yool
I'm going to shoulder that stress. Like, I don't want the client feeling that. That's the last thing I want. I want them to feel excited. I want them to feel, you know, they've gotten approval. This is what we wanted. They don't need to know how the sausage was made. I just need to make the sausage. There's no upside.


00:40:35 Ryan Wiley
no upside. No. There's no upside.


00:40:35 Jennine Yool
No. There's no upside.


00:40:36 Ryan Wiley
You're stressing everybody out. Before you know it, your three phone calls in. And then broken telephone game comes in and then everyone said, and then all of a sudden you get an email and everything's good. And everyone's like, what the frick? Like that was, I just wasted my all. Why did we stress out of this? Why didn't we stress out about this? Like, so, but that's an art. That's an art of understanding in the moment what to take in, what to share with people, how to instill confidence in people around you. And you're very good at that. So we're going to wrap this up. Janine, maybe we'll have you back. We'll see. I love everything about what you're doing. I think it's phenomenal. You're leading by example for the agents around you and the little people in your life who are watching. And so I can't say enough good things about you. I've seen behind the scenes, everything you do and how you operate. And it's quite spectacular, although boring, but spectacular. I just want to say thanks for coming on.


00:41:29 Jennine Yool
Appreciate you having me. This is fun.


00:41:31 Ryan Wiley
That's it, everyone. OK, thanks for listening, kids. Peace out. And I really, really, really appreciate the support. It means a lot. OK. All right. Enjoy your day, guys.